Antique art experts Giuseppe Eskenazi and Weidu Ma discuss new museum

Giuseppe Eskenazi, born in 1939 in Istanbul, is widely recognized as one of the most important oriental art dealers in the world.

As a guest of Guan Fu Museum and Guan Fu Treasury, Eskenazi was in Shanghai during the past Dragon Boat Festival to launch the Chinese version of his book, “Chinese Art in the Eyes of Giuseppe Eskenazi.” He owns a gallery in London that has been open since 1960 and works at the highest end of the market, selling to museums and ambitious collectors, including world famous celebrities.

In 2005, Eskenazi auctioned “Gui Guzi Descend the Mountain,” a blue-and-white porcelain piece made during the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) at Christie’s for 15.69 million pounds (US$24.7 million), a record for antique Chinese porcelain.

During his short stay in Shanghai, Eskenazi, who first came to Shanghai in 1972 and recalls Pudong as “merely farmland,” visited Guan Fu Museum and Guan Fu Treasury. Both will open at Shanghai Center this August.

He also spoke with Ma Weidu, owner of Guan Fu Museum.

One of the best-known antique collectors in China, Ma, unlike many Chinese collectors who prefer to keep a low profile, enjoys being in the limelight. He frequently appears in magazines, newspapers and on TV programs, sharing his experiences in the field and his knowledge with the public.

In the 1980s, he bought rare furniture, ceramics and jade — all at prices vastly lower than today. Thanks to his early start, Ma has accumulated more than 1,000 Chinese antique pieces, some of which are considered priceless. He opened China’s first privately owned heritage museum in 1996 in Beijing.

He named Guan Fu Museum after the Taoist classic word “guanfu,” which means “look at it again and again.”

The future Guan Fu Museum in Shanghai will occupy an area of 6,000 square-meters — almost the size of a football field — and Guan Fu Treasury will be based in the basement of Shanghai Center. The museum will showcase Ma’s collection for several decades, ranging from gold ware to porcelain.

Both Ma and Eskenazi discuss their ideas about Chinese antiques.

Q: When did you start collecting?

Esken azi: I am engaged in the antique business, but I don’t collect them. It would be unfair to my clients as I would keep the best pieces for myself.

Ma: This is the professional practice. I prefer to keep the best things in my possession and sell the less valuable pieces to others. I have been collecting for four decades.

Q: How do you learn about antiques?

Eskenazi: Knowledge is very important and requires a whole life to learn. The best way is to see good and authentic antiques that are showcased in museums.

Ma: We face a lot of problems in the learning process. I have witnessed famous scholars make big mistakes when determining whether a piece is fake or original. Thus when I feel senile, I definitely won’t give my advice.

Q: Do you have some unforgettable experiences you can share?

Eskenazi: I have many. For example, I went to see the exhibition featuring the blue and white porcelain of the Yuan Dynasty at Shanghai Museum three years ago. The exhibition was terrific, and it had many important collections from around the world.

Ma: For me, the most unforgettable experiences are the pieces I was unable to buy, but purchased by Mr Eskenazi. For example, he bought the blue-and-white porcelain named “Gui Guzi Descends the Mountain.” I took a picture with the piece but at that moment I knew for sure that I was unable to have it. The feeling is similar to a girl you admire, you can just hug her for a while to take a picture.

Q: What’s your impression of the antique market in China?

Eskenazi: In the past two decades, there have been more collectors looking for Chinese porcelain from the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911). But in recent years, people have turned to earlier porcelain such as the porcelain of the Song Dynasty (AD 960-1279). The art market doesn’t have a limit on the number of people involved. But the problem is that now many people are buying pieces as an investment rather than to add to their collection. In the past 20 years, art pieces have become a kind of currency paper. This is not right. One must love the art they buy and be responsible in passing it on to the next generation.

Ma: Originally, I thought that there was only a small group of people who are collecting art. But according to a report by CCTV, there are about 80 million Chinese art collectors. This promotes the traditional culture to more people. But today’s art market is similar to the stock market in China. People are not buying for their interest and love. I just hope that everyone could remain calm. Although earning money might be a certain pleasure, but it’s not the only pleasure in life.

Eskenazi: One becomes happy if the value of the art he buys increases, but if it doesn’t or the price drops, it might not give a negative feeling as the work itself is still beautiful.

Ma: That’s the core of culture. Antiques are better than stocks, at least, their value won’t drop sharply like stock prices.

Q: What’s your impression of Guan Fu Museum and Guan Fu Treasury?

Eskenazi: Guan Fu Treasury is a good choice for collectors as it is the biggest and deepest “safe” that I have ever seen. I think collections are for the next generation. It is better to “lock these treasures” here.

Ma: Liu Feiguo and I have contributed much to Guan Fu Museum and Guan Fu Treasury. I have a business plan for the Guan Fu Museum in Shanghai. The locals can put their possession, such as antiques, cash and other treasured things, in the safety deposit boxes inside our treasury. The fees for these boxes will help support the museum.